TRANSCRIPT Ep. 32 | Capricorn Lunar Eclipse: A Minnesota Goodbye


Episode 032 | Capricorn Lunar Eclipse: A Minnesota Goodbye

June 29, 2020


Full show notes and links for this episode

Jen: Welcome to the Big Sky Astrology podcast, with April Elliott Kent and me, producer and cohost Jen Braun. Hey friends, Jen here! Today is June 29th, 2020. And as always, here with me – to run with sparklers – is my friend, astrologer April Elliott Kent. Hi, April!

April: Hi, Jen! I know you’re laughing because I’m making delighted little hand-waving motions…


April: I’m thinking of that Geico pig.

Jen: Oh, yes…

April: You remember from the commercial – welcome new unofficial sponsor Geico! – but I love the one with the little Geico pig and he’s hanging out of the windows and he’s got his sparklers.

Jen: I know exactly what you’re talking about and…

April: He’s going, “Wee, wee, weeeeee!!!”

Jen: …that is one of my favorite GIFs of all time!

April: So delightful.

Jen: Yes.

April: And of course, the reason we are talking about sparklers is here in the United States, at least this week, we welcome Independence Day.

Jen: Independence Day…

April: On July 4th. How do you celebrate for the Fourth? Do you do things up there?

Jen: We don’t have a regular tradition between Joanie and I. We’ve gone and seen fireworks some years. But I do have a memory that I can share with you.

April: Oh, do!

Jen: I was a small child. I want to say seven or eight years old. And there’s a picture of me in a parade, a 4th of July parade. My brother is pulling me in a wagon. The wagon is covered – like a covered wagon – and I’m Betsy Ross, apparently.

April: Well, sure.

Jen: I’m wearing a bonnet. I think I was supposed to meet Betsy Ross? I’m not sure.

April: Are you sewing? That would give us a clue.

Jen: I would have to ask my mom and dad what exactly I was doing dressed like that.

April: Well, it’s the flag. Of course. Betsy Ross, she designed the flag.

Jen: I was dressed like I belonged on Little House on the Prairie, with a bonnet.

April: I’ll bet you were just cute as the dickens!

Jen: It’s probably the last time I wore a dress as well.

April: Probably. Other than in our little donation avatar. Where you’re looking quite fetching.

Jen: Yes. If anyone would like to support the show, they can go to and they can click on “Support the Podcast.” We have a great little avatar that April did of she and I. And we’re dressed like… homesteaders, I guess…

April: Victorian homesteaders is what we’re doing. When I was growing up, 4th of July was a very festive holiday. I grow up on a farm in the Midwest in the 1960s, like the early- to mid-1960s. And this was the golden age of roadside fireworks in the United States, the sixties and seventies.

Jen: Well, you still see them around here.

April: Well, here you don’t. In California, they were outlawed because of the high fire risk. Because we’re just always catching on fire.

Jen: Sure.

April: Which is kind of sad, because I really remember how fun those stands used to be. I don’t know if they still have them there. The roadside stands.

Jen: Say more.

April: Oh, well, you know, black cat fireworks and all of that?

Jen: Oh, yes!

April: But we always had our sparklers and just… Those are some of the sweetest memories. I mean, playing in the twilight, being out on the front lawn, and we’d have our sparklers. And once we were in California with our cousins and things… it was just delightful. Mosquitoes, though.

Jen: Yes.

April: That’s a big downside.

Jen: Well, yes. I did love sparklers as a kid though.

April: Sparklers are great.

Jen: Not to pass over your mosquito complaint.

April: You just glossed right over that.

Jen: I just passed right over that.

April: And this is a very serious mark against 4th of July for me. Now, a big plus on the other hand: Did you have the big sheet cake with the white frosting and then the flag made out of blueberries and strawberries and raspberries?

Jen: Would you have it just because it’s the 4th of July?

April: Yes. Because of the flag motif.

Jen: That’s really cute.

April: It is cute. And you have the little blueberries up in the top left in the little square.

Jen: Now, I have to tell you, my wife does make a fruit tart with cream cheese topping. And then she does the strawberries in a line, with the blueberries as the stars. I might have a picture of it somewhere.

April: Oh, you have to post it in the show notes, if evidence of this cheesecake exists.

Jen: Okay.

April: Because it’s a big plus. Oh, now I want that sheet cake. It sounds really good! But I have to work hard, to beat the mosquitoes to get to it. In any event, we celebrate this week, the independence of our country here in the United States. And we have an eclipse on that day…

Jen: Yes, we do.

April: …this year. But we’ll talk about that a little later on in the episode, because first we have many other things to discuss.

Jen: Many other things. Should we get to it? Should we jump to it?

April: I think we should.

Jen: Should we run with sparklers to it?

April: I believe we should!

Jen: Did you run with sparklers as a kid?

April: Of course! That’s the only way to do it.

Jen: Run down the street with sparklers – wheeeee!!

April: What are you, just going to stand there? You shouldn’t just stand there with these sizzly little sticks. There’s no fun there.

Jen: If any kids are listening, just be careful…

April: Yes. Don’t run with sparklers! That’s what we’re going to say.

Jen: Alright, well, the first thing on our show sheet is we have the second conjunction of Jupiter with Pluto.

April: Yes, we do. We had the first one back on April 4th and we talked about it at some length… I think in that Episode 19, “Jupiter Meets Pluto, Two Thumbs… Up?”

Jen: I think we were talking about Fonzie in that episode.

April: Yes. And sort of our general ambivalence around this series of three conjunctions. The first one was on April 4th. And then we’re going to have one this week on June 29th. And then the third in the series will be on November 12th.

Jen: Yes.

April: The way this works, when you have the outer planets… the planets specifically from Jupiter through Pluto that have kind of a slower cycle and are retrograde a good bit of the time… when they are aspecting each other or something in your birth chart, it will often have this pattern of three conjunctions. Because what will happen is, the first one will happen when the faster moving planet first contacts the slower moving planet. So in this case, Jupiter came together with Pluto and then Jupiter goes along its merry way and turns retrograde. As it’s turning retrograde, it’s going back over the same territory that it previously covered, including a conjunction with its friend Pluto. And it goes back a little bit more and then it turns direct. And it has to go one more time over that very same territory that it’s just covered, including, you guessed it, a conjunction with Pluto.

Jen: Yes. April and I have become aware that we’ve picked up some new listeners in that last two or three weeks. And so we just want to let folks know, first of all, welcome. But secondly, a conjunction just means that, like you said, they come together in the sky. If you’re looking out into the cosmos, it appears as if Jupiter is in front of Pluto.

April: Although we can’t see Pluto, but yes, I get your general point.

Jen: Yes. They’re sharing that same area of sky basically. And I just read your mind there…

April: You did?

Jen: Yes. You were thinking “by longitude,” not…

April: You will be so surprised to hear that what was happening just then, was… it’s like, if you’re looking at a cartoon and there’s a little thought balloon, there was either nothing there or there was an ellipsis.

April: Because I was completely out to lunch! I’m thinking, “Yes, Jen’s got this. I’ll just let her take care of this.”

Jen: That’s hilarious!

April: “I’ll rejoin the conversation later.”

Jen: She was thinking about kitties or something…

April: I was thinking about kittens, a squirrel, glitter and sparklers. There were no deep thoughts going there. Anyway, you were in the process of making a very good explanation about what a conjunction is.

Jen: Yes. It’s just them sharing that same area of sky. And then retrograde motion, of course, the planets don’t actually move backwards. It just appears that way from where we are here on Earth.

April: Yes.

Jen: That’s all I was going to say.

April: Well, you said it very well. I’m sorry I wasn’t more help, but I knew you had it. So there we are.

Jen: Next time I see that look in your eye, I’ll know. Either: April’s thinking something really deep, or maybe she’s just…

April: …It’s just, ‘La, la, la, la, la’ blank thought balloon. Yes, completely!

So the guys that we have coming together are Jupiter and Pluto. And Pluto has a legendary reputation for being not too nice of a guy. I’m not here to really say anything to the contrary of that, except to say that he does play his part, as all the planets do.

Jupiter has a reputation for like being Santa Claus. For bringing us all wonderful delights and magic and winning lottery tickets and all the rest of it. I do agree that Jupiter is a planet that brings us – for lack of a better term – good luck. But I think it is of the nature of that kind of luck that doesn’t always look like luck at first glance.

Jen: Okay.

April: It’s like a dark cloud, but there is a silver lining and Jupiter is the silver lining. But sometimes you have to wait for the dark cloud to move out of the way until you can really see what Jupiter’s up to.

So, a classic example would someone goes to the doctor because they have a rash. And they get to the doctor, and because they came in for the rash, it’s discovered that they have some other kind of ailment which would have gone undetected and might have gotten more serious.

Jen: Okay.

April: Jupiter can sometimes show up the rash. And you think, “Well, this is not lucky.” But it can sometimes lead to things which otherwise you might not have explored or noticed, and have a beneficial outcome.

Jen: That’s an interesting way to put it.

April: Yes. So it’s like, there is something in society. Right now, there are a lot of eruptions. There are eruptions in society around the pandemic, around healthcare generally, around social justice and racial equality. But I think the Jupiter part of that is it’s like, it makes things bigger so they can be noticed.

And what we’re noticing as a result of this pandemic are a lot of really interesting things about the way we are functioning or not functioning together as a society, which is going to be really important as Saturn goes into Aquarius for the last time later in the year. So I think that a lot of what is showing up right now as difficult/trying/vexing is probably a bit of a Jupiter-silver-lining, waiting to reveal itself.

Jen: Nice.

April: Now Jupiter also accentuates anything it comes in contact with. And that’s why it’s a little dicey having Jupiter coming into contact with Pluto. Because Pluto is the god of destruction. He’s the one who’s charged with winnowing out whatever isn’t working for you, whatever is not working for society. What are the weak spots? What are the things that are making us less strong as a people collectively? It’s Pluto’s job to get in there and find where the rotted wood is and where the structural weaknesses are so that they can be corrected. So, Jupiter coming together with that has landed us in this really interesting moment in time. Hasn’t it?

Jen: It sure has.

April: Where a whole lot seems to be falling apart. And I just will say that my faith as an astrologer is that: Jupiter has a higher purpose and opportunity for us. It’s a learning opportunity and it’s an opportunity. Also, Jupiter in traditional astrology… if you’re looking at, say, a legal situation… the judge is very much of the nature of Jupiter. He is the one who arbitrates between individual concerns and the needs of the society. And that is a Jupiterian figure and a Jupiterian symbolism at work. So it’s an interesting time. It’s not an easy time. And if we look back to April 4th, when we had this first conjunction: Society was just closing down. It started closing down here about the middle of March, I remember. And April 4th was a time when it was really dawning, I think, on all of us that we were in a really serious situation. And a lot of fears around health concerns, but also the economy – which Jupiter is very influential in the economy as well.

Jen: Right.

April: So it was really scary

Jen: And Pluto is the god of destruction. And he’s also the god of transformation. His purpose isn’t to destroy, just to destroy. It’s to make things better.

April: Yes. It’s to take out what isn’t true.

Jen: That’s such a better way to say it.

April: It’s like take out what’s false or weak. Because the things in society that make us weaker as a collective are the things that need to be rooted out. And then you’re left with what is true. And that, I think, is Pluto’s bottom line is: What’s real and what’s true?

Jen: That’s great.

April: Yes. So that April 4th was the first pass of that and really made us grasp that we were in something really heavy. And now as we’re getting to the second conjunction – as Jupiter’s going backwards – as it’s going retrograde and its retracing its steps… Retrograde can also act like a retreat. What felt so perilous to us on April 4th, it’s retreating a little bit now. You know?

Jen: Yes.

April: Communities are opening up. My friend in Italy is able to travel again and to areas near his home and things. And here in California, we’re seeing a lot more service-oriented businesses opening up and things like that. So that’s nice and people are getting together. But the government official in San Diego and I’m afraid, I can’t remember the title of the person… was coming out yesterday and issuing more warnings about being careful as you’re gathering and these kinds of things. The danger I suppose, would be – as this is going back – is like, by retreating, we could be impeding our progress in the long-term with regard to the economy, with regard to health and these kinds of things.

Jen: Exactly.

April: And then on November 12th, when we get the final conjunction between these two, it’ll be interesting to see where we’re at by then. And whether things will be back to a little bit of a contraction, second wave of the virus, whatever it is. But it’s also right after the national election.

Jen: Right. That’ll be interesting.

April: I’m not sure how I feel about that symbolism of Jupiter with Pluto around election time. So, we will see.

Jen: If you had to use a metaphor for Jupiter and Pluto coming together and the three passes themselves: Do you have a metaphor to help people understand what that means?

April: The general idea of the three – the metaphor that I always use – is if you want to convert to Judaism. And you go to the rabbi and you say, “I want to convert.” And he says, “No.” And then you go away, and you come back a second time and you say, “I really want to do this.” And he says, “No.” And then you go away and the third time you go, “I am really sincere, I really want to do this.” And he says, “Yes.”

Jen: Okay.

April: So this tradition of: You’re being tested, how sincere are you in your resolve? How important is this to you? And a retrograde cycle of an outer planet to another planet gives you that opportunity. You see it really clearly in transits, in people’s charts. If you have Jupiter – which is right now in Capricorn – going over, say, your Saturn as I do in my birth chart.

Jen: Yes.

April: So Jupiter goes over Saturn the first time and you go, “Oh, I have a sense of things are really opening up here and maybe I’ll do this.” But the timing isn’t quite right for it yet. And so when it comes retrograde again, you’re revisited by the idea, and you go, “Well, maybe it’s time to really do this.” And then the planet goes away again. And by the time it makes the third hit, you go, “Yes, now I’ll do it.”

And if it’s a difficult transit… say it’s Pluto with your Moon or something, which is really difficult… or Saturn with your Moon. The first time is the worst because it’s new and you’re going, “Huh.” And then the second, when you are like, “Okay, I know this, I can deal with this.” And then by the third time, you’re like, “My old friend.”

Jen: “I got this.”

April: You get it. Yes. And you see what it has brought to you, even if it’s been painful. So it’s always delightful for me when I’m doing a reading with somebody and they’re on the second or third conjunction or square or opposition. Because it’s easier for them to see the possible advantages.

Jen: You have more context and you can see what has happened the first time around. And you can look back with vision.

April: Yes. But at least with the first one, when you see that it’s part of this three-part process, you can say that to them. You can say, “This is probably about how this feels right now. And it probably feels like this is going to be with you forever; that this is what it’s going to be like. It’s not. And you’re going to have two more opportunities to make a little progress with this to understand it better.”

And I think the understanding is a key part of this with the Jupiter/Pluto, with everything else. At first, we just were in chaos. We didn’t know how to cope with what was happening.

Jen: Yes.

April: The second time we’re kind of like, “We know what we think. We know what this is. We know what the parameters are. We know what we should do.” And I’m not sure we have the full story yet. I’m not sure we’ll have the full story until that final conjunction in November.

Jen: Yes.

April: And by then, we’ll also have Mars retrograde. So who knows.

Jen: And by the end of the year Jupiter will come together with Saturn in Aquarius.

April: Which is a much happier story.

Jen: Which is the vision. What’s the vision now?

April: Yes. Right.

Jen: So your example with the rabbi? It made me think of the infamous Minnesota goodbye.

April: Yes.

Jen: “It’s time to leave now. We should get going.” And then you keep talking for another 20 minutes and then, “Oh, we should really get going.” But you stay. And by the third time, yes, you are…

April: …It’s a Midwestern thing. It really was true in Indiana as well. And it would feel rude to do it the first time.

Jen: Of course. You wouldn’t just do it the first time.

April: No. There’s a process. There’s a protocol process involved.

Jen: Alright.

April: So that’s a little bit about the Jupiter/Pluto conjunction, which happens on June 29th this week. Just before midnight Pacific Time, so pretty much the 30th everywhere else.

Jen: And then the third and final one is November 12th, which you said.

April: Indeed.

Jen: We have next up on the show sheet: the Sun and Mercury doing some stuff this week.

April: Doing some stuff.

Jen: April, do you want to talk about that?

April: Well, not really. But you had some things that you wanted to say. We are talking about the Sun with Mercury a lot – and that cycle, and that pattern. Mercury is still retrograde of course. So it’s in a particular relationship with the Sun. But you had found some neat little NASA…

Jen: …Yes. Mercury is coming together with the Sun. It will pass directly in front of the Sun. So it’s going to be an inferior conjunction, which is when Mercury passes between the Earth and the Sun. NASA – and I’ll put a link to this in the show notes – said that you can see Mercury actually shift from the evening sky, which is where he is these days, to the morning sky. Because for awhile, we won’t be able to see Mercury at all. Although you should never stare at the Sun… we should throw that in there too.

April: Yes. I’m just reminded… I just have to segue here…

Jen: Go for it.

April: Here at the San Diego zoo, there are these beautiful bronze statues of some primates by the primate location.

Jen: Yes.

April: And there is a helpful sign next to it that says, “Statues Are Hot When The Sun Is Out.” So it’s like, you touch these at your own peril. And it’s like, “Really? You have to point that out to people?” But apparently you do. So, we can’t be too careful: Nobody run with sparklers or look directly at the Sun.

Jen: Yes, for sure. Well, so Mercury will be emerging from the glow of dawn on the Eastern horizon around July 8th.

April: Yes.

Jen: That will be lovely.

April: Yes. Mercury has to get a little bit of a distance away from the Sun, of course, in order to be visible at all. And he never gets further than, I think it’s 28° away…

Jen: Something like that.

April: …from the Sun. It’s really darn close. So it has to be at the furthest point in its cycle from the Sun before you will even see it.

Jen: Right. Exactly.

April: So because Mercury never travels that far from the Sun, if you’re born with the Sun… say you’re born today with the Sun in Cancer. Then we know Mercury almost certainly is going to be either in Cancer or in the sign before it, which is Gemini, or the sign after it, which is Leo.

Jen: Sure.

April: There are very specific examples if you’re born with the Sun at the first degree of the sign. Mercury could be a little bit further back into the very late part of Taurus, but it’s not nearly as common. He’s the mouthpiece for the Sun. He’s the press agent who goes out and tells the story the way the Sun wants it to be told.

Jen: I like that example.

April: Well, on that same day that the Sun and the Mercury come together, which is June 30th, there’s a sextile also between the Sun and Uranus. And also Mercury and Uranus . So they are kind of triangulating with our pal Uranus there.

The sextile, which we talk about a lot, is an opportunity and information aspect. It could be information coming your way, especially since Mercury is involved. It can be from an unexpected source because of Uranus, which is a planet of the unexpected. Or it can be flashes of inspiration because Mercury is the way we process information and Uranus gives that lightning bolt of inspiration.

Pretty interesting day if you do creative kind of work. Or in any work that you do, if you’ve been hoping for a breakthrough, we might possibly see it on June 30th.

Jen: Okay.

April: If we look back to February 22nd, that’s when the Sun in Pisces was making a sextile to Uranus. That might be a timeframe to look back and say, “Oh, what was I working on then? Here’s another opportunity.” And the Sun with Uranus is about this idea of how to look at yourself differently; because the Sun is your identity and Uranus is changing things up.

Jen: Okay.

April: It can be exciting because again, creative breakthroughs are possible. Because the Sun is connected with creativity. But also, just a sense of standing outside yourself for a moment and seeing yourself a little bit differently. So, an example I might use is you hear your recorded voice for the first time or on a podcast. You go, “Oh my God, I didn’t know I sounded like that.” Or you see a picture or a video of yourself. And you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve been living in denial about whatever.” So your Uranus is that moment of startling awareness of ourselves almost from outside our ourselves.

Jen: I see.

April: I like that as a little combination, June 30th, a very interesting day.

Jen: I will mention – and I will also put this in the show notes – if folks are interested in learning more about any of this, you can learn more about Sun sextile Uranus in Episode 13. And for Sun/Mercury conjunctions, we have a couple of episodes that you can go back to. The most recent one being Episode 24, and the other one being Episode 14, “Retrograde Minds, Cazimi Hearts, Can’t Lose.”

April: Oh, thank goodness for you Jen, because that is very helpful. Thank you.

Jen: You are welcome.

April: It gives people a chance to dabble their toes on our back catalog.

Jen: Yes. And let me mention – since you said that – it made me think of something: If you’re interested in learning astrology in general, obviously we try to put stuff that is useful in every episode. So you can go back and start listening from episode one. And although the transits that week won’t pertain, there’s always stuff in the episode that we carry forward into future episodes. So if you’re looking for a podcast to binge on, feel free to check out our earlier episodes.

April: Binge us, binge us!

Jen: And if you want to learn astrology, April has also written some great books that I will link in the show notes.

April: Thank you Jen. Thank you, Jen!

Jen: Yes. You are welcome!

April: I do like my little books.

Jen: Yes. They’re great.

April: Well, next up this week, we wanted to talk about Saturn, which is retrograde right now. And it will back into Capricorn, it’s previous sign.

Jen: Indeed.

April: This happens on July 1st at 4:39 PM Pacific Time. And it’s also Canada day. So we want to give a shout out to our friends North of the border. And in particular, we’ll shout out our friend, Emily, who does social media for Big Sky Astrology.

Jen: Yay, Emily!

April: Yay, Emily! She is a lovely Canadian.

Jen: Happy Canada day.

April: Yes. And also Janet, my web designer.

Jen: We have a lot of Canadians that listen to the show.

April: Yes. So we wish you a very lovely Canada Day. And maybe in comments for our posts, you could tell us what you like to do to celebrate Canada Day.

Jen: Oh, that would be fun. We love hearing from people.

April: Do you do sparklers? We want to know. Or have cake?

Jen: Do you run with sparklers?

April: We want to know. So, way back on March 21st, Saturn entered Aquarius and we all got extremely excited about it because Saturn being in Capricorn has been like being in boot camp for two and a half years. And Saturn is always a bit that way. But you get him in his own sign of Capricorn and that’s a lot of seriousness. So we all got a little bit excited and thought, “Wow, Saturn going into Aquarius, that’ll be a really new feeling.”

And we talked about that at some length on Episode 17, “Saturn in Aquarius, All In This Together.” Because that was ironically just about the time that quarantine really began, and physical distancing really began. We talked about that at some length. You might want to go back and revisit that episode.

Then on May 10th, Saturn turned retrograde, which we talked about in Episode 24. And now it’s going back into Capricorn. So we’re going to get to revisit that little bit of territory in the last, oh, I don’t know, maybe 4° – I couldn’t tell you off the top of my head – of Capricorn.

Jen: Okay.

April: Which is clearly where we needed to do a little more work. And Jupiter and Pluto happen to be sitting there about now. It’s like Saturn was a scout that went ahead. There were all together on the trail. And then Saturn went riding ahead just to scout things out and say, “What’s this Aquarius territory going to look like? How do we need to prepare?” And now he’s going back to Jupiter and Pluto to report and say, “Okay, I saw this: I saw people that were not necessarily prepared to work together that smoothly as community. And we’re going to need to bring some resources to help with that.” Because that’s going to be the most perilous part of this terrain for the two and a half years that Saturn’s in Aquarius.

So he’s just reporting. And now he’s coming back to Capricorn and saying, “You know, in order to be better prepared for what’s ahead up there a couple more things we need to do back here in Capricorn.” It’s again dealing with this Jupiter/Pluto stuff.

Jen: Yes.

April: And dealing with the end-of-Capricorn stuff. This whole time we’ve been talking a lot since we started the podcast about how the Lunar Nodes were moving through Capricorn and Cancer and how the South Node of the Moon, the release point was in Capricorn. You have these big, heavy, outer planets in Capricorn with the South Node. There were saying, “There are old ways that are ingrained in society – which is Capricornian thing – that we have got to let go of, that we’ve got to do better with.

And this is like the final exam for that, I think, as Saturn’s coming back into this end of Capricorn and joining up with Jupiter and Pluto. It’s saying, “Are we going to be a fairer and more equitable society? Are we going to try to level the playing field a little bit economically for people? Are we interested in treating each other as a society, or are we more interested in being an economy?”

And it’s not that you can’t do both, but you can’t do just one without the other. So that is what we’ve been trying to find some equilibrium with during this Capricorn/Cancer time. So I see this as really important, the Saturn going back into Capricorn: It will turn direct on September 28th, which is not long after Mars has gone retrograde. And then it enters Aquarius for good on December 16th.

Jen: So you’re speaking in general as a world, things that need to be rebuilt in our society?

April: Exactly. And I’m glad you said it that way because Saturn is the building planet.

Jen: Yes.

April: It’s like, he’s going ahead. And he’s saying, “Okay, there’s lovely territory there. There’s all kinds of stuff we can do with it, but we’re going to have to build some infrastructure.” And that is what is called for as Saturn goes into Aquarius. It is to me, our best opportunity in 30 years to work on these kinds of issues, the social issues: build a stronger society together. But it doesn’t happen automatically. Nothing with Saturn ever does. He says, “You want this? You better build it. It’s going to be up to you to put in the elbow grease and the work and do what’s difficult to make it a better society.” It’ll be interesting.

Jen: So Saturn got some ideas in Aquarius – some good ideas about more equality and being more just. And these are things now that he can take back into Capricorn, and we can spend the next few months – until December 16th – building that?

April: Yes. And talking about it at length, trying some blueprints.

Jen: And maybe listening.

April: I’m listening to you. Did you notice? Did you notice me listening?

Jen: Nice.

April: Tipping my ear like Nipper on the Victrola ads.

Jen: You leaned in, which I appreciate.

April: Leaned. Yes. There we go.

Jen: Alright.

April: And finally this week. Do you know what time it is?

Jen: Moonwatch.

April: Moonwatch. Play it!

April: Yes! Moonwatch this week: It’s a Full Moon lunar eclipse. It’s the last of three eclipses that we’ve had.

Jen: We’ve made it!

April: Yes. We had one on June 5th in Sagittarius, a lunar eclipse. Then we had the big solar eclipse at 0° of Cancer on the day of the solstice on the 20th/21st, depending on where you live. And now there is this final one – and then they’ll give you a break of six months – on American Independence Day, on July 4th at 9:44 PM Pacific Time. A lunar eclipse at 13° and 38 minutes of Capricorn.

Jen: Okay. What can you tell us April, our eclipse maven?

April: Yes. The eclipse maven. I would say go back… We did an episode, a couple of episodes ago where we talked about the lunar eclipse. That would be a good one to revisit. And of course, our favorite “Unboxing Eclipses,” which I think was Episode 5.

Jen: Correct.

April: It talks a lot about the delineated eclipses through the houses of your chart and in aspect to planets. So that’s a big one to go back and revisit.

Jen: Yes

April: This one is on a couple of interesting Sabian symbols that I like taken together.

Jen: Tell us.

April: The Sabian symbol for the Moon at this lunar eclipse is 14 Capricorn, “An Ancient Bass Relief Carved In Granite.” And then the Sabian symbol for the Sun is “A Very Old Man Facing A Vast Dark Space To The Northeast.”

Jen: What do you make of that?

April: Well, I like them because they both point to age. And age to us speaks of wisdom and it speaks to us of security and something solid.

Jen: Okay.

April: So I like the 14 Capricorn, “The Ancient Bass Relief Carved In Granite.” This is the very last in the series of eclipses in Cancer and Capricorn.

Jen: Right.

April: We won’t have them again until 20…

Jen: 2028?

April: 2028. Thank you.

Jen: Yes.

April: So this is kind of the eclipse final exam. Like we had Saturn going back into Capricorn, this one’s the last eclipse in the sign.

Jen: Okay.

April: And it says, “Have you made peace with what you have built your life on?” And the fact that the things in the Sabian symbol are carved in granite – or that it’s an old man – lead us to initially think, “Yes, things just are the way they are. And I’m just the way I am. And there’s really no way to change that.” That to me was the most difficult dimension of all of this Capricorn symbolism that we’ve been living through. Is the danger of thinking that things are carved in stone, that they can’t change, that there’s nothing that we can do about them. And that we’re helpless.

Jen: Interesting.

April: But what I like about the Sabian symbol for the Sun, “A Very Old Man Facing A Vast Dark Space To The Northeast…” The Northeast is sort of, to me, and I read a lot of interpretations of this… What came to mind for me is – because I’m United States centric, because this is where I formed my world view – the Northeast is the part of this country that was founded first. So an old man facing that way and looking to the past and looking to the formation of the country… It’s not a coincidence to me. This is on Independence Day. And that is actually the symbol of the Sun this time, every year, it should be around that degree. So, it’s saying, “Are we going to look to the past, to everything that’s gone before? Or are we going to carve something new out of new stone, something that’ll last something we can depend on?”

So it’s a really interesting couple of symbols to me. And the fact that it comes on our nation’s birthday, I think, paints a really eloquent portrait of where we are right now as a country. So what have we learned, basically, in the last two years?

Jen: Yes. And let’s remember that, of course there were people already living here.

April: Yes. You make a good point.

Jen: Yes.

April: We always have to examine in America: We’re very patriotic as a country and we’ve prided ourselves on being exceptional in so many ways. But so much of what’s happened over the last month – with the uprisings and the Black Lives Matter movement and all of that – is, periodically, we have to reexamine what is arguably the most painful part of the founding of the country.

Jen: That’s right.

April: And what we profess to be, as a nation, disregards that painful history.

Jen: Yes.

April: And disregards some of the painful present. So those are the kinds of things I think we’re really looking at now and that this eclipse invites us to look at again. And to do something – really do something – about rewriting a new foundation so that as we’re moving forward towards the end of the year – and that Jupiter and Saturn come together, and it looks like a really wonderful change – that it’s based on something true and honest and…

Jen: Authentic. Which is what you said earlier.

April: Yes.

Jen: Or maybe it was last week?

April: Yes, I think I wrote it in my column last week, now that I think about it.

Jen: Okay. I had some thoughts about these symbols: The two symbols to me connect because there’s also something of the unknown here. That someone can make something long-lasting, and you can hold it in your hands. And you don’t know who made it or where it came from, but it’s there, you’re looking at it. And something in the second symbol with the old man facing a vast dark space… There’s something of the mysterious in both of these symbols as well. And of age, which you already talked about. But there’s something about the unknown and the mysterious to me in both of these symbols.

April: Yes, I think that’s well put. And I think it’s the mysterious and unknown within ourselves too. Because what came to mind as you were saying this is that: There are so many things that we base our lives on and we take them as just accepted wisdom. We grow up in a particular family. We think, “Well, because I’m in this family, this is how we do things. And this is my role.”

And that’s why it’s so interesting to see people get to a point in life – where they have a big Pluto transit or big Uranus transit in particular – that challenge those accepted beliefs about who they’ve always been and so that’s who they always have to be forever.

Jen: Right.

April: But when we step outside of that… like we were talking earlier with Sun sextile Uranus… when we step outside of that for a moment, we say, “Well, is that really true?” Just like I say, it’s not carved in granite. There is more to us than we think that there is. And it’s by testing ourselves and moving out in new directions and trying out different behaviors that we learn more about not only who we have always thought we were, but who we really are and who we can become.

Looking out to the vast dark space and saying, “Ooh, what’s hanging out there?” I think of a person, say, the very old man near the end of his life, presumably. And that’s a point at which you could see it two ways. You could say, “I’m losing everything.” Or you could say, “Oh, the real adventure lies ahead.”

Jen: Yes. And it’s also looking at history. This just came to me: When you’re peering out into space, you’re actually looking at the past.

April: Right.

Jen: When you’re seeing a star out in space, you’re looking at something that’s already happened. It’s already happened. So that by the time the light arrives at Earth and you’re visually seeing it, it doesn’t exist anymore.

April: Yes.

Jen: And it’s the same thing with the relief. It’s come up through history. You’re looking at the past.

April: Yes. But it’s long gone.

Jen: But you’re also pondering the future and wondering what can be?

April: Deep thoughts!


April: Deep thoughts on a Monday morning, I love it! Well, if people want to consider this more specifically for them and their charts, I always love to look at past eclipses at the same point that have kind of the same characteristics, because those are touchstones for you in this process of discovery.

Jen: Yes.

April: The most recent one that was a lunar eclipse at this degree was on July 7th, 2009.

Jen: Okay.

April: There was one on July 5th, 2002. And there was one on July 6th, 1982.

Jen: Okay. So all around the same time of the month/year?

April: Yes. I specifically chose those because there are some other ones, some solar eclipses around those degrees… but for being a lunar eclipse, which has specific kind of feeling at that degree, it’s going to always be within a couple of days of this one.

Jen: Got it. So 2009, 2002, 1982.

April: Yes. And just take a look back and spend a little time with those years. and you think, “Hmm. What was I doing? And what from those times has lasted, has been brought forward with me? Has been brought forward as part of my story about who I am? And is it time to look off into the distance and say, ‘Well, what else is there?’ Maybe this isn’t my bass relief carved in granite anymore. Maybe it’s time to carve something new.”

Jen: Where have I been? And where am I going?

April: Exactly. And what’s it all mean, Jen? What’s it all mean?

Jen: What does it all mean?

April: What’s it all about, Jennifer?

Jen: You used my full name there!

April: I did, I’m sorry. But it just…

Jen: My mother would be happy. Oh, go ahead.

April: …I needed the syllables. What can I tell you?

Jen: Every now and then, go ahead.

April: You had to suffer for my art.

Jen: Oh, let me say one more thing about the eclipse, April… which is that this eclipse can be viewed in South America, much of North America, much of Africa, and Southwest Europe. And it won’t look quite like a full, full lunar eclipse because it is a penumbral lunar eclipse… where the Moon moves through the outer part of the Earth’s shadow. And it’s often mistaken for a regular Full Moon. So the Moon will kind of darken, but you won’t get that full, deep red like we get some months.

April: Correct.

Jen: I’ll put a link in the show notes and…

April: Thank you for that.

Jen: …you can see if the eclipse can be viewed in your city, where you are.

April: Yes. See the barest shadow of it.

Jen: Yes.

April: Well, I think that is everything on the show sheet, my friend: Have we done it?

Jen: Forward we go! We have done it.

April: Yes. Into the vast dark spaces. Well, thanks to all of you for listening to The Big Sky Astrology Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, so you don’t miss a single episode. You can also read show notes and full transcripts of each episode and leave your comments at our website, And we hope that you will help us spread the word. Leave a rating and review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts, tell a friend about it, share it on social media.

Jen: If you enjoy the podcast and you are able to contribute financially: Please go to and kick in as little as a dollar or as much as you’d like to help us out. We do have overhead costs that we have to cover every month and your incoming money helps us do that. So thank you.

April: Incoming, incoming! Yes. Thank you. It is most appreciated. And just hearing from you is so wonderful.

Jen: We love that.

April: Yes. So we know we’re not babbling into the void and merely entertaining one another. Which we do.

Jen: Into the vast darkness.

April: Indeed. Well, join us again, bright and early next Monday. And until then, keep your feet on the ground…

Jen: …and your eyes on the stars.

Thank you for listening. To learn more about April Elliott Kent, please check out her website,, where you can sign up for her newsletter, read her thought-provoking weekly essays, purchase her books, sign up for a personal astrology reading, and more.

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