TRANSCRIPT Ep. 19 | Jupiter Meets Pluto: Two Thumbs…Up?

Transcript: Episode 019 | Jupiter Meets Pluto: Two Thumbs…Up?

March 30, 2020

Episode Notes Here

Jen: Welcome to the Big Sky Astrology podcast, with April Elliott Kent and me, producer and cohost Jen Braun. Hey friends, Jen here! This podcast is being published on March 30th, 2020. Although we’re recording one week in advance, on March 23. It’s been an intense week here on planet Earth. But here to help you make sense of the skies is my celestial sister-friend, astrologer April Elliott Kent. Hey April!

April: Hello Jen! I love being your celestial sister-friend! I love the word celestial.

Jen: It’s nice.

April: It is nice.

Jen: An underused word… just like kerflooey.

April: Just like kerflooey.

Jen: …and nibling.

April: And all the other exemplary words we’re bringing to you fine people each week!

Jen: Yes!

April: It has absolutely been an intense week. And Jen assures me I sound fine, but I feel like I sound a little bit croaky. I had a very speaking-intensive event on Saturday and I’m fighting a cold. So far I’m winning, but if I sound a little bit raspy around the edges, that’s why. Maybe I’m going to develop that sexy, sort of good-cup-of-coffee voice that some people have. Where it’s just a little bit raspy, and it sounds really kind of sensual.

Jen: Is that a smoker’s voice, or a cup-of-coffee voice?

April: Well, I’m hoping it’s a coffee voice, cause coffee’s a little bit better for you.

Jen: I think so too, yeah. These are challenging times. Don’t you think?

April: Yes. It’s been very interesting seeing the astrology that we talk about each week then unfold in the week ahead of us. Because as you pointed out, we’re always recording a week in advance of when the episode drops. We basically never know what the transits are in the given moment, because we don’t know if it’s the transits we talked about last week, or this week, or what. But it really has been fascinating to talk about something, and then in the coming week see it unfolding and how it’s actually manifesting. And it’s always the interesting thing about astrology isn’t it?

Jen: Yes, it sure is.

April: So the big news really has been that as Saturn has gone into Aquarius… and we talked about that quite a bit a couple of episodes ago and I’ve written about it on the site. And basically, it’s the thing everybody’s talking about. Because it’s a pretty big deal when Saturn changes signs. And this week we have Mars going into Aquarius as well. So we’re starting to see a little bit of movement in that huge clump of stuff that we’ve had in Capricorn for the last month or two

Jen: Moving out of that earth sign and into the air sign.

April: So it’s a sort of a flash forward, I think, to what we might be seeing… especially coming towards the end of the year, as Jupiter goes into Aquarius and comes together with Saturn at almost 1°.

So on March 30th at about 12:43 PM Pacific Time, Mars will enter Aquarius.

Jen: Okay.

April: We’ve talked about Mars in a couple of different signs now. We talked about Mars in Sagittarius, and we talked about Mars going into Capricorn. And now Mars in Aquarius.

Mars is always about forward motion and how we defend ourselves against peril, which seems a very apt interpretation of how we’re experiencing it right now, and are initiating new things and all those things that Mars likes to do. It’s been having a bit of a time of it in Capricorn; it’s been hard to experience a sense of forward motion. We’ve been experiencing exactly the opposite over the last week or two. As more and more, we’re all kind of spinning our wheels as things are getting canceled and closed down around us, and we’re working at home if we’re working at all, and things have been grinding to a halt.

Jen: Yes. And I guess all of those Capricorn planets are being ruled by Saturn, which is about limits and boundaries.

April: Yes. And slowing things down, putting on the brakes.

Jen: Yes.

April: So as Mars goes into Aquarius, I think what we’ll begin to see is a little more of a sense of – and I’ve been feeling this about Saturn in Aquarius too. There is a more hopeful quality to it. Because Capricorn is a very physical sign and it’s a sign of cold hard reality. It says what is happening right now in this moment is all there is. And we talked quite a lot last week… and in really helpful terms, I thought, Jen…you were sharing techniques for staying in the moment.

Jen: Oh, thanks.

April: And using that part of the brain to overcome that lizard brain fear quality.

Jen: Yes. And there are a bunch of resources and links in the show notes from last week that might be helpful for folks tackling stress right now. Lots of good resources. So do check that out.

April: Yes.

Jen: Go ahead April. Sorry.

April: Well no, that’s okay. We were going to touch on that. So I’m glad you did.

But Mars going into Aquarius says something really interesting. Because, at the same time, we do need to stay in the moment as you say, and cope with what’s in front of us and what we can cope with. Aquarius has a different agenda, which is: to take collective action and build toward the future. So it says on the heels of all the things that we’ve all been going through – and it’s been pretty tough – within that, there’s the opportunity to find a sense of collectivism and a sense of what we want to create together.

Jen: Yes.

April: And I think we’ve probably talked about this before with regard to Aquarius… because Leo is very much a sign that is concerned with personal expression, personal artistic projects and the like. It’s opposite sign, Aquarius, is where together we create something. It’s the future we all share. It’s the creative acts that can only be done in association with other people.

Jen: Yes. And we would have talked about that on the episode called “It’s Aquarius Season, Charlie Brown.” Back in January that would have been… so I can link that in the show notes.

April: Oh, right! The shirt! Charlie Brown’s shirt. Once you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it!

Jen: Charlie Brown’s shirt looks like the Aquarius symbol of the water bearer.

April: And aren’t the Peanuts just perfectly Aquarian, now that I think about it?

Jen: Yes, actually… now that you mention it.

April: They really are!

Jen: This little group of goofy kids. Yes!

April: Little peanut-headed people!

So that is Mars. And Mars will of course immediately make a conjunction with Saturn. Because Saturn is sitting there in the first degree of Aquarius. So the next day after it enters Aquarius, on March 31st, about 7:45 in the evening, it will make a conjunction with Saturn.

Jen: Right off the bat: the gas pedal meets the brakes.

April: Pretty much is how that works. And I was just telling you before we started recording, I’m actually having this aspect today in my own chart. Because Mars, today, is sitting at 25° of Capricorn, which is exactly on my natal Saturn.

Jen: How’s it feel?

April: Very frustrating. Enormously frustrating. And also, like working intensely hard and it’s hard to see a reward for it.

Jen: Sure.

April: You know when Mars comes along by transit, we can think of it as an aggravating factor a lot of the times. And what’s good about that is it motivates us. If we’re completely complacent and very comfortable, we won’t get anything done. Mars describes that force that either comes along from outside of us or from within us that says, “Let’s do something, let’s get something going.”

Jen: Okay.

April: But it acts in an aggravating kind of way sometimes. It’s like a mosquito that’s making you itch and then you have to scratch.

Jen: That’s a glass-half-full way to look at it.

April: Yes. It’s not all bad.

But when it comes together with Saturn, what it’s doing is triggering Saturn. And if it’s in your birth chart, it’s all your Saturn stuff that gets triggered. So, without making this all about April day, it’s just that each of us has a particular Saturn – in a house, in a sign, in aspect to other things, that is usually difficult. It’s the potential that we have to become mature, well-developed leaders and all kinds of great things. I can say wonderful things about Saturn for hours. But within your chart… it’s much as we’ve seen within society in the last couple of weeks, as Saturn has been sitting at 29° of Capricorn, and feeling very fearful. That’s what Saturn can feel like in your birth chart.

So if Mars comes along and triggers that, that’s what’s getting triggered.

Jen: And would that be true also, if Mars came along and made a square aspect to Saturn in your birth chart or the opposition as well? Are those aggravating as well?

April: They are aggravating in a different way. When two planets come together in conjunction, there is an incredible intensity of energy and power. And we’re seeing it between transiting Mars and transiting Saturn. And Mars and Saturn are both very willful planets, and having them come together just means… we’ve talked about it before as being a couple of big dogs in a small cage.

Jen: Yes.

April: And having to negotiate things, work things out. A square works a little bit differently because there was a place for the energy to go.

Jen: Okay.

April: So, maybe the dogs are in a fenced-in yard and they can fight and they both have a place to go to get away from the intensity of the interaction. And an opposition, you’re often going to have, for instance: something will be happening to somebody else, and you get to observe it and experience it in that way. So, they are all triggers. They just have their particular way of triggering.

Jen: Got it.

April: We can expect as we go into this Mars-in-Aquarius period… and Mars has gotten past Jupiter in Capricorn, has gotten past Pluto in Capricorn, and now it’s catching up finally with Saturn. We like to think we’re home free a little bit because it’s in Aquarius. But yes, it’s a little bit of a stuck place.

And the Sabian symbol for that first degree of Aquarius is really important because we’re going to see that later in the year as Jupiter and Saturn come together in a conjunction around the solstice.

Jen: What is the Sabian symbol?

April: It is, “An old Adobe mission.” And we were talking about this before the show, because we felt certain we had talked about it… but we can’t find it in any of our episode notes.

Jen: Well, you know what’s funny? It’s that, that symbol reminds me of something existing through time. And here we thinking we have heard that before together… therefore, existing through time.

April: And we’re so wrong.

Jen: Yes.

April: So there’s a couple of different ways to break this one down. There’s the fact that it’s old and it’s something that has stood the test of time.

Jen: Yes.

April: And it is adobe, which is of the earth. So even though it’s gone into Aquarius, we’re talking about that interaction between the sky and the earth.

Jen: Nice.

April: And it’s a mission. And I was telling you earlier that here in California we have a really singular way of looking at the California missions which are part of, you know, a kind of an imperialist past.

Jen: Yes.

April: And don’t necessarily – when you break it down – have the greatest legacy. And yet we’re proud of them, because they’re really beautiful buildings and they have interesting histories in the ways they supported their particular communities within California.

Jen: There is some irony there.

April: Yes. We’re very fond of them. Nearly all of the little kids in school in California end up doing some kind of class project about the California missions. So, they’ll go and visit them and they’ll write about them and they know where they are.

It’s an interesting symbol. It evokes a lot for me. And I told you before, I’ve been really thinking about it because of what an important degree it is later in the air with Jupiter and Saturn coming there. And it says this is a whole new beginning. It’s a beginning of a 20-year cycle. It’s the beginning of a 200-year cycle. And it’s the beginning of an 800-year cycle. So, it’s very, very important. And it says, “What will we take from the past that’s substantial? What will we take from the past into the future? What are we going to find that’s useful as we build our new society together as Jupiter and Saturn come together in the visionary sign of Aquarius?”

I think there’s a little bit of a warning there. And that’s only because of what we’ve seen in California and the tradition of the missions. And to say: It’s a fine line between trying to bring good things to people and being a little bit too heavy-handed about it and not respecting existing cultures and traditions and that kind of thing.

Jen: Right.

April: I don’t know if I’m belaboring this too much…

Jen: It’s all really good information. I mean, I’ve done a little traveling in California and also in New Mexico. Same thing, though: These gorgeous old churches and the history behind it is a little tough, when you think about the way people were treated.

You said it’s a new 20-year cycle and a new 800-year cycle as well. What are those related to?

April: Well, the 20-year cycle is going to be Jupiter and Saturn coming together, which happens every 20 years.

Jen: You mean in Aquarius specifically?

April: In any sign.

Jen: I see. Because by the time Jupiter makes its 12-year loop, Saturn will have advanced a little bit, and it takes that extra eight years to catch up. Okay, got it.

April: Jupiter and Saturn have a 20-year synodic cycle of coming together in a conjunction in some sign. Any sign.

It has a 200-year cycle of doing that in of the same element. So for the last 200 years, roughly speaking, we’ve had this great conjunction come together in earth signs. And this talks about the industrialization of our societies and those kinds of things.

Jen: Yes.

April: Now it’s going to be – for the next 200 years – in air signs. We had earth/earth/earth. In the early eighties, we had one slip into Libra, which is an air sign… but then back into Taurus in 2000, an earth sign.

And now it is moving once and for all into the air element as it goes into Aquarius. So that’ll be 200 years. It takes 800 years for this great conjunction to go through all of the elements.

Jen: Got it.

April: So it’s going to be big.

Jen: Wow, it’s a really big deal!

April: It is. We’ll talk a lot about it at the end of the year as we’re getting close to that point… as everyone’s talking about it. But this is a little bit of a sneak preview, I think.

Jen: It makes it extra fascinating seeing everything that’s going on now, knowing that this great conjunction is coming up.

April: Yes, it really does represent a big shift in society. I think everyone’s trying to see that as Saturn’s going into Aquarius, as Mars is going to come together with Saturn there in that sign. They’re trying to tip us off. They’re trying to say, “Here’s the road forward.”

Jen: Yes.

April: But it starts with some irritation and some frustration and everybody stuck at home, I guess with the Mars and Saturday together.

Jen: Here’s the 1970’s reference for you: Do you remember “Schoolhouse Rock?”

April: Of course!

Jen: “Conjunction junction, what’s your function?”

April: What’s your function?

Jen: Oh, that’s great… I’ll link that in the show notes. It was a cartoon explaining how we join phrases and words together.

April: Absolutely.

Jen: You can think about that, then, whenever you hear the word conjunction… you can think about “Schoolhouse Rock.”

April: Just be humming it to yourself, “What’s your function?”

Jen: Totally!

April: And that’s a good, actually a helpful, way to think about conjunctions. Because it’s this and this. And “and” is a conjunction.

Jen: Yes.

April: Well…

Jen: What time is it, April?

April: Moonwatch!

Jen: Let’s play it.

April: Do it!

April: I just love our Moonwatch!

Jen: Yes!

April: So, First Quarter Moon at 12°9’ of Cancer on April 1st, 3:21 AM. Now… we love to talk about holidays on this podcast.

Jen: Yes, we do.

April: April 1st is, of course, a commonly observed holiday. Now, can you imagine how much your friend April enjoys that holiday?

Jen: It did cross my mind… with the month April coming up, to think about you as a kid and what might have happened. Do you want to share anything with our listeners?

April: “Aprils a fool day!”

Jen: Oh… no…

April: Of course, I’m a confident person and it did not bother me. But I have to say, I’m not a big fan of practical jokes anyway. So April 1st: That’s our holiday for the week.

Jen: Do you know how you got your name?

April: Yes. What happened was my mother was on her fourth child. And it was not a particularly planned event and she had not given a lot of thought to names. And family legend has it that she gave birth to me, handed me to her aunt, and said, “Name her.” And that’s what my aunt Charlotte came up with.

April: And it’s a lovely name. I really have to thank her. I always felt a very special bond with her because she named me.

Jen: Very good.

April: Anyway, quite apart from that, should we talk about this First Quarter Moon?

Jen: Yes, let’s please.

April: Okay. It’s a fascinating set of Sabian symbols that we have for this First Quarter Moon.

Jen: I’m looking at the show sheet. I’m a little perplexed.

April: Well it’s one of those weird ones when you first hear it. The Sabian symbol for the Moon at the First Quarter is, “One hand slightly flexed with a prominent thumb.”

Jen: Hitchhiking.

April: And I’m showing it to you right now over Zoom.

Jen: Yes. Thumbs up.

April: So there’s couple of different ways you can read that.

Jen: The Fonz? “Ayyyyy…”

April: The Fonz!

So, it’s a thing of confidence. It’s a thing of affirmation. In a kinder, gentler time, it was the universal sign of, “Hey, can you give me a ride?” So there’s a lot that goes on with one hand, slightly flexed with a prominent thumb.

You know the First Quarter is always a time to take some kind of action.

Jen: Yes.

April: And what’s interesting about it is it’s in Cancer, so everybody – as we record this – is pretty much working from home if they are able to.

Jen: Right. Cancer is home. The home.

April: Yes. So having a First Quarter Moon there, that makes some sense. And if we weren’t all doing our jobs at home, it would be a First Quarter where we might be suggesting to people that this is a really good time to tackle projects around your home, for instance. And the prominent thumb-up says, “Yes, all systems are go. Go ahead and go.”

Jen: Okay.

April: But the Sun is on a really interesting Sabian symbol, “An unsuccessful bomb explosion.” Which sounds very scary.

Jen: Yes, scary at first glance. That’s exactly what I was going to say.

April: But it’s unsuccessful. So…

Jen: Yes. Like, “Ayyyy…”

April: Yes, things don’t turn out as badly as we expected or feared… is the hope, with this degree.

Jen: “Hey, everything’s okaaaayyy.”

April: “Hey, everything’s a-okaaayyy. Go ahead.”

So, it’s a tough time. So much is in suspended animation. And we talked about this last time… of that contradiction that we’re feeling between – on the one hand – at the Vernal Equinox, we had this as we were going into Aries… this sense of wanting to spring forward and do things with great energy. But it’s an interesting time to try to do that because so much is in flux and it’s hard to make plans. It doesn’t mean that you can’t do things now and today. The First Quarter Moon really favors that approach anyway. Unless it’s in Capricorn or it’s connecting with Saturn, it doesn’t tend to be so much about, “Let’s do something now to plan for the future.” It’s much more about, “What can I do today in my immediate environment to be effective and get things started, get things done?”

Jonny’s been out painting the house, and that’s the thing he’s been trying to find a minute to do for months. So, this is a perfect expression of that.

Jen: Awesome.

April: So we shall hold good thoughts for this First Quarter Moon. And you would basically look at where 12° of Cancer falls in your chart. And maybe that gives you a little bit of a sense of, “Where are the good places right now to be taking a little bit of action?”

Jen: Right. And if you sign up for April’s newsletter at – it’s right there on the main page – you can get a free “Working with the Moon” workbook every month and…

April: …follow the major phases of the Moon.

Jen: Yes. And it would tell you exactly what’s happening with each house. So you should do that, my friends. If it feels right to you, you should do that.

April: Well, thank you, Jen.

Jen: Yes, for sure.

April: So on April 3rd, Mercury is making a conjunction to Neptune. And this is just yet one more instance of Mercury, either doing something with Pisces or Neptune or being retrograde.

Jen: Yes. Mercury has been very busy with Pisces and Neptune over the last few months.

April: It has. So it’s making a conjunction with Neptune on April 3rd at 6:14 PM Pacific Time, on the degree of 20 Pisces, which is, “A table set for an evening meal.”

Jen: Which we’ve talked about.

April: Yes. Recently.

Jen: It was Episode 16, “Let’s Talk About Sextiles.” It was the Virgo Full Moon.

April: Right. The Sun was at this degree.

Jen: We sit together in fellowship…

April: Yes. And yet at a safe social distance.

Jen: Six feet apart…

April: we’re not sitting together at restaurants.

Jen: …in groups of four or less, or whatever it is now.

April: It takes a little bit of the sntiment out of the symbol, doesn’t it?

Jen: I guess so.

April: Yes.

Jen: Well, the Sabian symbol is interesting, because there is more than one way to have an evening meal. You can do it online these days. My sister actually just started that yesterday with our family, in different parts of the country. It’s a way to eat and chat. And there were some cute photos that she sent with pictures of everybody’s little faces on the screen. So, it was nice.

April: That’s so sweet. Well, you’re probably going to spend more time eating together now than you did before all this stuff happened.

Jen: I actually think that could be true!

April: Well I think we’re all making a little more of an effort to come up with innovative ways of doing this.

Jen: You know, this is technology that’s been around for ages, but now that people can’t physically go places, it’s a way to get together without having to personally be there, side by side.

April: So Mercury coming together with Neptune is something it actually hasn’t done yet in its cycle since it first entered Pisces.

Jen: Okay. So this is the first time this year?

April: Yes, because it turned retrograde… it was close to 13° of Pisces. Been retrograde for awhile went forward so it’s just now getting to this point. Mercury with Neptune, I think, does have that lovely element of imagination about it and that lovely part of the atmosphere thing of the table set, and the flowers, and the candles, and some music playing, and all of that. And a time to really make however we are gathering with people really special and talk about everything that we’re thinking about and hoping about. And then we’ll just be done for a while with Mercury and Neptune. It’s always a little bit foggy-headed for yours truly.

Jen: You’re not the only one, I think.

April: Yes.

Jen: So Mercury will speed off, as he does, and leave Neptune in the dust, right?

April: Yes. Earlier that day, Venus enters Gemini on April 3rd at 10:10 AM Pacific Time. And as things do now as they enter signs, they will immediately encounter some kind of aspect to Saturn and the aspect between Venus and Saturn will be a trine. Which will happen the next day.

Jen: Okay.

April: Now, Venus, we’ve talked about in many iterations by this time. But Gemini is a new one for us to look at.

Jen: I think our very first episode we talked about Venus.

April: We probably did.

Jen: “Nobody puts baby in a corner… You start first with Venus because nobody puts baby in a corner.”

April: I think Venus went into Capricorn. So now Venus is in Gemini.

And Venus, again, is about the things that we find lovely and appealing. The things that attract us and that attract others to us. It’s about relationships, it’s about money, it’s about things we value and how we value ourselves. So when it changes signs… in my book on transits, I think the comparison I used was going to a shopping mall. And there are all different stores, and they all specialize in different things. So Venus going into a different sign will tell you, “Oh what store would this Venus go to in the mall?”

Jen: Okay.

April: And Venus will totally go to a bookstore. It might go to Staples or one of those office-supply stores. Gemini loves writing materials and journals and fun stuff like that.

Jen: I like how you’re putting those together.

April: Yes, bookstores for sure. So, it’s going from Venus being in Taurus, which is very languid and not inclined to probably even go to the mall because it’s too much work. It might go to a farmer’s market instea, an outdoor farmer’s market.

Venus in Gemini… since none of us are probably necessarily running out to a bookstore at the moment, or a mall or even shopping online too much for books at the moment… Venus going into Gemini says, “Find pleasure in Gemini pursuits.” So it is about simple conversation. It is about reading and maybe sometimes rereading books that we love or those things that people have been suggesting to you to read for months and you just didn’t have the time and maybe it’s been on your wish list. Bright conversation, new ideas, a variety of input are all things that Gemini finds absolutely delightful.

Jen: That’s great. April, Venus has been making trines to all of the Capricorn planets in earth signs.

April: It has.

Jen: And now she’s going to start trining air sign planets. Does that signal anything in terms of that shift in general?

April: Yes, I think generally it’s the shift towards the mental and intellectual and verbal side of things.

Jen: Yes, so it’s reinforcing all that.

April: Right. First of all, anytime we see Venus, any kind of planets in Mercury-ruled signs, Gemini and Virgo… or Mercury coming together with Saturn… all of these say, “Do something concrete with your ideas, studying something a little more seriously.” Perhaps this would be a week where you tackle some piece of material that you’ve been trying to understand. And using astrology as an example, there might be some astrological technique that you’ve run across and you felt, “I really would like to know more about that, but it seems too hard right now with everything that’s going on.”

This says – as Venus in Gemini comes to Saturn – it would probably be really enjoyable to do that.

Jen: Sure.

April: And also, I think there is something here about being a – Is it being a kinesthetic learner when you learn by touching?

Jen: Yes. Kinesiology. Yes.

April: Because Venus does have that sort of sensual side to it.

Jen: Right.

April: I think it’s just a really good time about getting serious about learning something, about expressing yourself, having some hard conversations maybe that need to be had. Or writing something substantial if that’s something that you do.

Jen: Yes.

April: It’s an interesting Sabian symbol, “A glass-bottom boat in still water,” is 1° of Gemini. And it’s one I like a lot. It says, “I am able to see down into the depths. I’m in this safe little boat. I’m hovering above, but I can look down.”

I remember when I was a kid, we’d go to Disneyland and they had a submarine ride. Like, this little submarine you could go in. And just this idea of being able to see all the way down to the underpinning, what’s really going on under the surface. It almost has a little bit of a Plutonian flavor to me.

Jen: Interesting. Makes me think of Australia, those glass-bottom boats that you can see the reef, the Great Barrier Reef.

April: Oh, I didn’t know about those.

Jen: We didn’t travel to that area of Australia, but they had some boats that you could take to do that.

April: So many beautiful things under the surface, I think, that we see in this symbol.

Jen: Absolutely.

April: Our last big aspect we wanted to talk about this week…

Jen: And it’s a biggie.

April: It is the biggest. Jupiter’s conjunction with Pluto, which will only happen every 12 years because that’s Jupiter’s cycle.

Jen: Right.

April: And the first pass of that conjunction is going to be on April 4th at 4:04 PM at 24°53’ of Capricorn.

With these big conjunctions, what you will usually have is they’ll usually come together three times. Because the faster moving planet – in this case Jupiter – will connect with the slower moving planet. Then it will move retrograde and backup and go over the slower moving planet again. Then it will turn direct again and that will hit it the third and last time. Jupiter will do that this time to Pluto.

So this is the first pass on April 4th. And it will also make a conjunction on June 30th. And one final one on November 12th, where we’ll really tee up the conjunction of Jupiter with Saturn that we’ve been talking about.

Jen: Yes.

April: So it’s about a half a year of Jupiter Pluto.

Jen: Wow.

April: And the there’s a lot we could say about it. My friend Dana Gerhardt wrote a wonderful article about this, which you can find at her website, which is If you go there, it’s going to be probably right on the front page. And it’s about the previous conjunctions of Jupiter and Pluto and exploring a lot of the symbolism of them coming together. But she did find instances, many instances… I think there were like seven out of 10 of the great epidemics or pandemics that got underway as Jupiter was making a conjunction with Pluto.

Jen: That’s really amazing.

April: Yes. It’s a really good read for people that are wondering about the astrology of a pandemic generally. We will also, of course, link to that in our show notes.

Jen: Yes, it was an interesting article. I read it.

April: Yes. And also a fantastic article by Ray Merriman, who is a well-known financial astrologer that we’ll also link to. Because we have had a couple of questions from readers and listeners who are like, “What about my portfolio?”

Jen: Right. Stock market’s a little shaky.

April: Yes, very much so. And we’d all like a little comfort and guidance in that area and it’s certainly not my field of expertise. So we will link you up with a really good article that Ray has written about that, and that’s his work.

Jen: Great.

April: The idea of Jupiter and Pluto, just to speak in pretty simple terms about the symbolism, is: Jupiter does amplify things. It makes things bigger and more far reaching, more global. You put it with something like Pluto, and Pluto’s job is to destroy.

And it’s little comfort to people who now are losing money, are losing jobs, are losing loved ones. But we always have to find a way to frame the planets in a way that’s useful. Even something as fearsome as Pluto. And I know we’ve talked about this before, but Pluto is about the element of taking away what is no longer needed or viable or serving. And as a consequence of all this, we can see a lot of things go away. And I said in our last episode, a lot of things in my own neighborhood, I know, are really struggling and might not make it and we may lose them.

Jen: Businesses you were referring to…

April: Businesses and things…

Jen: Yes.

April: It’s a little bit scary. And in better times I think there were perfectly viable businesses. It’s not like people have done anything wrong.

Jen: Sure.

April: But this just says, “In order to move forward to the kind of society we’re headed toward, that means the old society in significant ways has to go.” And that’s Pluto’s job. And that’s what it’s been doing as it’s been traveling with Saturn all last year and then into this year. The old structures, the old rules, the old forms… Saturn is the way we think things have to be.

Jen: Right.

April: Pluto traveling with that has said, “Well it doesn’t really, and we’re just going to turn everything on its head because to get to the next step can sometimes mean losing a lot of things we weren’t ready to lose.”

Jen: Yes. You can’t start new things without something ending.

April: Yes.

Jen: Even hard things.

April: And that’s what we said before on another episode about cycles: When one ends, another is beginning. And that is a comforting way to think of what we’re going through. And when terrible things happen, we can always look back from a historical perspective and say, “Well, we survived it. We got through it. And things change. And that’s the nature of life.”

Jen: Yes.

April: So Jupiter coming together with Pluto, on the one hand, it amplifies the difficult dimensions of Pluto, but at the same time – and Dana touched on this in her article in a really eloquent way – the great changes in society also come from Jupiter with Pluto.

And also advances… billionaires are made from Jupiter with Pluto. Now we won’t all become billionaires, but did we have a Jupiter/Pluto conjunction when FDR was implementing the New Deal policies, was one of the things she touched on. And that was a little bit more of a dispersal of wealth to the collective. So they are going to be interesting times, and it’s going be an interesting six months or so, as we’re looking at this play out.

Jen: That’s right.

April: One thing that’s nice is people for the most part are keeping their sense of humor.

Jen: Are you noticing that?

April: Yes. My sister said this has been the most spectacularly meme-tastic time that she’s ever lived through! And all day, she and I and my cousin are on a group thread, and we’re just sending hilarious memes. And of course, of course everything is very serious….

Jen: Yes.

April: …but, you know, there is that part – and I think Jupiter is probably implicated here – of, “Well, yes, but you can usually find something that’s kind of silly to laugh at too.”

Jen: At the nonprofit I used to run – helping to find adoptive families for teenagers in foster care – we laughed a lot. I mean, you kind of have to… because you see some really hard things, and hear about really hard things and…

April: …you develop a black sense of humor.

Jen: Yes. We definitely kept our sense of humor.

April: Well, what do you think? Nothing else on the show sheet. Have we done it?

Jen: Yes. I think we’ve done it April.

April: Alright.

Jen: Episode 19!

April: The show goes on!

Jen: The show goes on…

April: Well, thanks to all of you for listening to The Big Sky Astrology Podcast. If you like what you’re hearing, we hope you’ll subscribe. And we hope that you’ll leave reviews or comments either on our website or in an iTunes review. It’s super helpful. It helps other people identify us as something fabulous they should be listening to.

You can read show notes for each episode as well as full transcripts, because we know you’re not always in a position to listen and sometimes it’s nice to be able to read. And you can also read your comments about each episode at our website,

Jen: And it’s my job to make the plea to say… hey, if you’ve got any extra bucks hanging around and you want to toss some our way, we’d really appreciate it! If you enjoy the show, and you want to help keep it going, it helps us cover costs. So go to and kick in a dollar or ten, or whatever you can.

April: That was very elegantly done, Jen! Thank you. I am sorry, I put you on the spot there. Sat and looked at you meaningfully…

Jen: …it wasn’t on the show sheet! She looked at me, and I thought, “Oh, I know what my job is here!”

April: Yes. Well join us again, bright and early next Monday morning. And until then, keep your feet on the ground…

Jen: …and your eyes on the stars!

Thank you for listening. To learn more about April Elliott Kent, please check out her website,, where you can sign up for her newsletter, read her thought-provoking weekly essays, purchase her books, sign up for a personal astrology reading, and more.

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© 2020 April Elliott Kent & Jennifer Braun


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