TRANSCRIPT Ep. 17: All in This Together

Transcript: Episode 017 | Saturn in Aquarius: All in This Together

March 16, 2020

Show notes available here.

Jen: Welcome to the Big Sky Astrology podcast, with April Elliott Kent and me, producer and cohost Jen Braun. Hey friends, Jen here! Today is March 16th, 2020. And with me, of course, is my very favorite internationally-recognized astrologer, my pal, April Elliott Kent. Hey, April.

April: Hey Jen.

Jen: You are! Don’t roll your eyes.

April: I was rolling my eyes. And I have to say my…

Jen: She rolled her eyes, everybody!

April: My progressed Moon in Leo is secretly pleased, of course to be thought of as internationally known and renowned and so forth. I mean, technically speaking, I am internationally known. I do have books that are sold around the world.

Jen: I did not speak a lie there.

April: No, you didn’t. So thank you for that.

Jen: 10 minutes later I get a thank you!

April: I know if I say anything self-deprecating, I’m going to be in the purgatory of three good things I have to say about myself. So…

Jen: Absolutely. You know it!

April: I’m watching my language for sure.

Jen: Yes.

April: Well we decided at the top of the episode this time that we wanted to tell the people about a very exciting holiday that is happening this week. Now we’ve spilled lots of virtual audio ink on Pi Day.

Jen: We sure did.

April: I have no regrets about that by the way.

Jen: Good.

April: And we like to talk about our holidays and to bring this back to something a little more astrologically specific. We wanted to let people know that coming up on March 20th/21st is International Astrology Day. I’m on the steering committee for one of the national organizations. It’s AFAN. It’s the Association for Astrological Networking. And they actually founded IAD. They instituted this 27 years ago.

Jen: Oh wow.

April: International Astrology Day. The idea is for members of the community and also people who are just interested in astrology to spread the word about astrology. And if you look in your area, there might be some local group that is having an event. A lot of them are happening on March 21st, because that’s the Saturday closest to the International Astrology Day and it’s held every year on or about the Equinox.

Jen: Nice.

April: Which we will be talking about a little bit later in this episode. So what AFAN is going to do is have a day-long marathon on March 21st on Zoom that begins at 10:00 AM Pacific Time and it goes until six o’clock or something. And we’ll be talking to astrologers from all over the world. And it’s open to the public. You don’t have to be a member, you can just jump on the call and hear from people in your area or people on AFAN or just people excited about astrology and wanting to talk about it.

Jen: Yes.

April: So if you want to get more information and maybe join us, just go to and up on the top menu, go under events, “IAD” for International Astrology Day.

Jen: Oh great.

April: I know.

Jen: That sounds really fun.

April: I think it will be fun. Yes, we’re going to have some really interesting speakers and its kind of a fun way to celebrate this crazy world that we inhabit as astrologers.

Jen: And will you be speaking?

April: No, I am not speaking for this one because I’m one of the facilitators on the marathon.

Jen: Got it.

April: I’m on the committee that organizes this. So my co-chair and I will be coordinating things from behind the scenes and so I’ll be a master… mistress of ceremonies. So that is International Astrology Day.

Jen: Excellent. Good information. Yes, thank you for sharing that.

April: Indeed. Now. I was very excited last week about the introduction of our Moonwatch theme. It’s extremely dramatic to me. And it has that breaking news feel that we were really looking for.

Jen: It’s a newscast stinger.

April: It is. And we certainly hope that people are enjoying it. As you could hear us giggling away underneath it last week.

Jen: Shall we play it again for people?

April: Oh, I think you should.

Jen: There it is.

April: It just makes us really sound important and it’s thrilling. I mean there’s just no other word for it.

Jen: Yes.

April: So this week in Moonwatch, we have a Last Quarter Moon in Sagittarius and the Last Quarter Moon always is a time to take stock of where we’ve been for the last three weeks. Quarter Moons are also a time of tension because the Sun and the Moon are square each other, which is an aspect of conflict. Always at either the First or Last Quarter Moon, it’s a good idea to be a little bit gentle with yourself and with others. You can break through whatever impasse or blockage you’re experiencing without getting too brutal.

And in Sagittarius, the Last Quarter Moon I think really says, “What can I learn from this, whatever this is?” And to try to take a larger and more inclusive perspective on things. Does that make sense?

Jen: It does. And we have talked about Last Quarter Moons in a few episodes, so we can link those in the show notes. I’ll probably link it back to that first Last Quarter Moon that we talked about. Episode 3, that would have been.

April: Episode 3 was Alexa. Right?

Jen: It was Alexa. Yes.

April: Yes. Okay. I was going to say, “I’m starting to have your molecular recall of our episodes.” So Last Quarter Moon is where we are in the lunar cycle.

Jen: Okay.

April: So we also have Mercury going back into Pisces on March 16th.

Jen: From Aquarius, and we’ve talked about Mercury in Pisces on a few episodes.

April: Oh, have we ever!

Jen: So many.

April: We were saying before we started recording, we are just kind of done with Mercury at this point.

Jen: So go to Episode 11, Episode 13 and Episode 14 and re-listen.

April: It feels like we’ve just been talking about nothing but Mercury for weeks now. Yes. As Jen was saying, Episode 11 is when we talked about Mercury entering Pisces for the first time on February 3rd. So that’s worth going back and listening to and getting a general feel for what Mercury in Pisces will bring.

And then as of the end of this month, March 30th it finally ends its retrograde shadow period and it will go into Aries on April 10th. And a great rejoicing will be felt throughout the land.

Jen: “And there was much rejoicing. Yaaaay!”

April: Exactly.

Jen: Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

April: I’ve just had a heck of a time with this Mercury in Pisces, so I’m very, very happy to think of it going onto Aries.

Jen: Me too.

April: Both of those things… the Last Quarter Moon and Mercury entering Pisces, both happening on March 16th. And then we have sort of a free form few days before we get to the Aries Equinox. And I’m calling it the Aries Equinox rather than the Vernal Equinox. Because here in the Northern hemisphere, of course it is in the Vernal Equinox. It’s the beginning of spring. In deference to our friends in the Southern hemisphere, we hasten to remind you that it’s actually becoming fall there. And for them it’s the Autumnal Equinox.

Jen: Yes.

April: The Aries Equinox, we’ll call it, occurs each year, and it can happen on any day between March 19th and March 21st. And as you were pointing out to me before, it’s happening on the early side this time.

Jen: It’s the earliest in 124 years.

April: Wow. Well, that’s something.

Jen: Yes. It hasn’t happened since 1896.

April: Wow.

Jen: I was reading yesterday on about the Spring Equinox. They have a great video too that I’ll link in the show notes if people want to see astronomically what is actually happening during the Equinox.

April: Neat.

Jen: Yes.

April: Aries Equinox. It says, “This is the energetic new year.” The calendar new year of course begins on January 1st but this is when the world begins to spring to life. And it’s like if it were a Walt Disney movie, you know, the little birds are chirping and Snow White’s outside washing this step or whatever the heck goes on. So it’s the energetic new year.

And as you pointed out to me, the day before – on March 18th – there are actually five planets in Capricorn, all clustered within 10 degrees of each other. And really the Moon is the tipping point there because of course Mars has been together with Saturn and Jupiter and Pluto for a little while now, but they’re getting closer and closer and then the Moon comes along and kind of tips them all over. So lots of planets in earth signs. We have all of those in Capricorn and then Venus and Uranus in Taurus, another earth sign. And then there are three planets in Pisces: Mercury, Sun and Neptune.

Jen: And all of this earth energy is asking us to be reasonable and to be pragmatic. And to think ahead perhaps since there won’t be a lot of air energy happening.

April: And how much does Aries enjoy that? Not a lot. Right?

So the Equinox is defined as the Sun entering either Aries or Libra. At this time of year, the Sun is entering Aries. And that tells us that eventually in its journey through that sign, it’s going to make square aspects to all of those planets in Capricorn. So it will square in turn, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto.

So this just says this is going to be an Aries season where our desire to spring ahead, when we’re excited about new projects we want to begin now that Mercury’s finally direct… that we still meet with quite a bit of opposition out in the world. It says, “Okay, you can start all these new things and it’s great to have all of that enthusiasm and energy, but you’re going to meet your obstacles along the way.” Don’t expect it to go really smooth and easy. And I like to say that kind of thing to people, not because I want to be a killjoy, although I do have Saturn in Capricorn… But because sometimes people stop too soon because if they encounter some kind of challenge or some kind of blockage in something they want to do, they think that’s the universe telling them that it’s the wrong thing to be doing. That if it were the right thing for them, it would go smoothly.

Jen: Yes.

April: But I think what this is telling us is no, there’s a time that you have to really fight and put effort to get the things that you want going. It’s time for instituting new things. And that means that you’re really going to have to work hard in the beginning to get them going.

Jen: So, with the stellium of planets in Capricorn, how do you define stellium?

April: Well, I will generally look at, if you’ve got a cluster of planets together. And they need to include some of the outer planets. So not just the inner planets.

Jen: Oh, I’ve never heard that.

April: Yes. So I would say a cluster of at least three together within orb of the conjunction. So I would say up to nine degrees. And I’m very generous with orbs. And ideally you see them in the same house because that really concentrates the energy. I would suggest, and we’ll of course link to this in the show notes, that people visit the late Donna Cunningham’s website. She actually wrote an eBook about stelliums – just devoted to stelliums. She was a brilliant astrologer and a great writer and it’s a really terrific eBook. It’s well worth reading and especially for people who were born at times of great stelliums.

For instance, in the late eighties there were a lot of planets clustered together in Capricorn as there are now, so they might be especially interested in looking at that.

Jen: Yes.

April: But it’s just like a lot of energy in one sign. It’s all shouting together one general message, but it’s like having members of a family that all have unique voices. You got the rowdy little brother, you got the grandfather, you got the jovial uncle, you’ve got the glowering goth teenager in the corner. You get them on a common subject at the dinner table. “How are we going to make the world a better place,” or whatever it is. They’re all going to have a really unique perspective on that.

Jen: Sure.

April: It’s just a lot of energy around some subjects, around some areas of life. If you look at the house of your chart where Capricorn lives, then we know where all this energy’s clustered. And then coming from the outside, is this Aries influence that breaks up that impasse. It’s like a cue ball hitting a bunch of balls that you have all racked together on the pool table. And it says, “Oh be free. Move on.”

Jen: Nice.

April: So it’s an exciting looking Equinox.

Jen: Absolutely.

April: And mundane astrologers – people who study world events very closely – this is chart for them of the year. They will run the chart for the moment of the Aries Equinox, which this year is March 19th at 8:49 PM Pacific Time. So they would calculate that chart, especially for a given country.

Jen: Okay.

April: And they will read the political and financial future of that country for the coming year.

Jen: I’ve heard that for the United States we use Washington D.C. because that’s the capital.

April: Exactly.

Jen: Okay.

April: Yes. That’s what you would commonly do is use the capital city.

Jen: So we have listeners in over 80 countries and you would look at the capital of your country and start there.

April: It tickles you that we have people all over the world that are listening.

Jen: It’s kind of amazing.

April: It is. It tickles me too.

Jen: You know, there’s what, 200 countries? It’s interesting.

April: Now, we’ve got other really big news happening this week.

Jen: All kinds of big news.

April: We’ve got a lot, but I mean, the biggest thing that’s jumping out at me as Saturn moving into a new sign, Aquarius.

Jen: Which is big news because Saturn only changes signs every two and a half years. Right?

April: Indeed. It takes just over 29 years as we know from our episode about Saturn returns that it takes 29 years to orbit the Sun, so it changes signs about every two and a half years. And it went into Capricorn just before the Capricorn solstice, on December 19th, 2017.

Jen: Okay.

April: So we have been hanging out in Saturn in Capricorn territory since then. Other than a brief retrograde into Capricorn in early July through December this year, then it’s pretty much in Aquarius. The last time Saturn was in Aquarius was February of 1991 through January. 1994.

Jen: Wow!

April: Yes. I’m telling you.

Jen: What were you doing then April?

April: Oh, I can tell you my friend. I can tell you exactly, because that’s when my whole life broke open. First let’s talk about Saturn and talk about Aquarius and then it’ll make sense to you why my life did what it did and we can talk about you too.

Jen: Okay.

April: So Saturn is about the container of your life, the structure, the framework. If we think of a physical body, it’s the skeleton, is the thing everything hangs on.

Jen: Yes.

April: So when it goes into Aquarius, there’s usually some kind of significant restructuring and upheaval even, and a kind of a rebellion against the things that we’ve outgrown, the structures that we’ve outgrown. Whether it’s a job or a relationship or a house or whatever it is. Because Aquarius is that way,

Jen: Okay.

April: Saturn in Aquarius is encouraging us to set forth into a bold future. And as we’ve talked about before with Aquarius, a future we may never see.

Jen: Yes.

April: So it really is about laying a foundation, not just for our future but for future generations. So if you look at the Aquarius house in your chart, you can find where this restructuring will be taking place. If you were born with Saturn in Aquarius, which is back in January 1962 through December 1964… except parts of March through September of 1964. And as we said, February 1991 through January of 1994, then you’re getting ready for a Saturn return. And revisit Episode 11 where we talked about Saturn returns because it’s a really significant moment for you astrologically.

Jen: Yes.

April: So for me in 1991, I left my job in August. And Saturn had just gone into Aquarius.

Jen: Your secretarial job?

April: Yes, I left my very Capricornian job working for a state water agency. And I left that to be self employed as an astrologer, which is very Aquarian really. And then I met Jonny who would become my husband and married him. And moved to a new city. All of that was Saturn in Aquarius.

Jen: That’s a lot.

April: It was a lot. And it really did remake the structure of my life. So what were you doing then? You were 21?

Jen: I was 20. I was living in Spain.

April: Nice.

Jen: I graduated from college during that time. I was working as a peer supervisor at a nonprofit for runaway, homeless and at-risk youth at the time. Then when Saturn went into Aquarius the second time there after it had retrograded, it was my second year of graduate school. So I was doing a lot. It was a lot. Big years for me.

April: Yes. And I mean I remember them in a pretty positive way, although there was a lot of disruption certainly in my life, it was exciting too. And I think we see that with Aquarius. I like the combination of Saturn with Aquarius. Saturn rules both Capricorn and Aquarius.

Jen: Right.

April: So it’s going from one sign that it rules into another sign that it rules. So we know it’s still very strong. But what’s nice about Saturn in Aquarius is it’s like… we’ve done all of that work of Saturn in Capricorn of the really hard building of structures. And Saturn in Aquarius comes along and says “Yes, but they don’t have to be permanent. You can remake your life if you want to.” That’s the exciting thing to me about Aquarius always. And certainly Saturn there.

Jen: And Aquarius rules are hopes and dreams and is forward-thinking, as you’ve been saying, it’s about the future and Saturn builds things. So will Saturn and get some plans together while he’s in Aquarius and then retrograde back into Capricorn and start building things once he moves back?

April: In a word, yes. I think what happens is we start to propel ourselves off towards future goals and then maybe we realize we need to retrace our steps just a little bit. And this could be something of, “Oh well, before I really launch myself into this…” Let’s say a new career, let’s say we want to be self-employed. That’s a very Aquarian thing, such as I did at that time. I actually did literally do this at some point during that transit: I went back to the place where I worked to take a temporary assignment so I could pay off a tax debt that I had incurred.

Jen: Okay.

April: So it’s going back to the old structure, the old place for a very specific reason, and getting that Capricorn grounding that you need so that you can really go off into the future on stronger footing.

Jen: Yes. April, with all of those other planets still in Capricorn that we talked about, will those planets -Jupiter, Pluto, Mars – will they get an Aquarius flavor? Because Saturn rules Capricorn. Those planets are all still sitting in Capricorn. Saturn’s like, “No, I’m in Aquarius, but I’m still the boss of you! Hey, you’re in my house!”

April: He’s the boss of all of us and he doesn’t let us forget! No, that’s actually a really good point. And of course Jupiter will move into Aquarius soon enough.

Jen: Okay.

April: And by the end of the year, they come together in a rapturous, you know…

Jen: A big hug?

April: Yes. In a big hug at the first degree of Aquarius. It just really has felt, I think, like hard work. It’s like with Pluto, then with Saturn. It’s been that all of the foundations of society that we’ve come to rely on have really been brought into question. That’s Pluto’s job.

Jen: And a lot of them are crumbling.

April: Yes. Or have been undermined, which is a Pluto word. So I think Saturn going into Aquarius actually feels really positive to me. Because it says, “Let’s not lose sight of the fact that it’s not just about us here now. It is about the future. It’s about what comes after us.” And if you look back to 1962, what were we doing? Well we were making big plans about going to the Moon and civil rights. That was ground zero for those things. So I’m very hopeful as a person who likes to see forward motion and progress in our society, the Saturn in Aquarius is a good start for that.

Jen: Yes.

April: And we saw that also in the 1930s when Saturn was in Aquarius: Franklin Roosevelt was elected and introduced the New Deal and those kinds of policies. So that is Saturn in Aquarius.

I am going to be running a special for Saturn in Aquarius. I’m offering 10% off a one-hour reading through March 31st. So, see the discount code in the show notes.

Jen: What a good deal for folks.

April: It is. And you can see the show notes either at and just go to this Episode, number 17, or also the show notes appear in iTunes. If you’re listening to us on iTunes, underneath the episode description you can get that code. So that is through March 31st.

Jen: If folks buy a reading before March 31st could they schedule it in April or May?

April: Any old time.

Jen: Okay. Yes.

April: Any old time they want.

Jen: Good.

April: Yes, it doesn’t expire. I still have some people who bought readings at the end of last year that are taking their time to book because they’re just not ready yet, but that’s fine.

Jen: Awesome. Okay, so this seems far away, but in March 2023 Saturn leaves Aquarius for Pisces. But just a couple of weeks after that, Pluto moves into Aquarius. And so won’t March 2023 be an important time? And people could start setting themselves up for success while Saturn’s in Aquarius?

April: Sure sounds like it!

Jen: You know I have all those 11th house planets so I’m looking ahead!

April: So you’re always thinking, you’re always thinking ahead. We’re sort of wondering… we’re looking at the United State’s Pluto return that will be coming up in late Capricorn. We’re all wondering what’s going to happen with that. So we’ll see. I mean quite honestly, I think it’s going to look like a very different country – the US at least – by that time. And it will be interesting to see where Pluto in Aquarius takes us. In the infancy of our nation, Pluto went into Aquarius.

Jen: And there was a lot of change and upheaval during that time.

April: Absolutely

Jen: Interesting. So right now, we’ll get a little flavor for what’s to come starting in December. And we can start laying some groundwork for when Pluto moves in down the line.

April: Absolutely. I like how you’re thinking there.

Jen: Cool.

April: So we have a couple of big conjunctions this week. And the first of them is Mars in a conjunction with Jupiter on March 20th at 4:34 AM Pacific Time.

Jen: That sounds important!

April: Well, it is. So Mars will come together with Jupiter probably every two and a half years or so. That’s kind of Mars’s cycle. And it will be at 22 degrees and 48 minutes of Capricorn, which is on the Sabian symbol, 23 Capricorn, “Two awards for bravery in war.”

Jen: Gee, that sounds familiar.

April: Yes, we have discussed that. Do you know what episode?

Jen: Episode seven, “Saturn and Pluto Go To the Repair Shop.”

April: Ah, that makes sense. Was that where the conjunction was happening?

Jen: Well, that’s what I was going to bring up…

April: Ah…

Jen: It’s where Saturn and Pluto came together and now Mars and Jupiter are coming together at the exact same degree.

April: Oh, very interesting.

Jen: Yes.

April: So it would be interesting to go back and re-listen to that episode and what we were saying. But when we have one of those big conjunctions like Saturn with Pluto, what we look to is for the faster moving planets to come along and make aspects where that combination happened. It’s the same as with eclipse degrees, and I think we talked about that.

Jen: We have talked about that.

April: In Episode Five.

Jen: Yes.

April: What this says is that the energy that came together at that Saturn/Pluto… and honestly we have seen it a bit, I think, with the coronavirus stuff. And I’m not going to get deep into the weeds on that, but I will say that they started diagnosing it in China, I think, in January.

Jen: Yes. I sent you an email shortly after that. Remember? To let you know that you had mentioned about people’s immune systems maybe being down a little bit, and that it might be a little bit of a worse cold and flu season this year. And within a week or two of that episode, all the stuff about the coronavirus came out.

April: Wow, I’m smart!

Jen: You’re smart, April.

April: I vaguely remember you sending me that email. And when we see something that’s really significant, we almost have to connect it with the biggest astrological factors that have been happening. And that Saturn and Pluto was the biggie.

Jen: Yes.

April: So I think that was probably ground zero for this. And then as Neptune is interacting… as all the Pisces planets have been interacting with Capricorn… then you see the opening, the opportunity, the sextile opportunity for infectious disease and for things to get passed around. That’s the nature of Pisces. It’s a sign without a lot of boundaries. Things don’t necessarily get contained. Mars on that degree where the conjunction happened – as well as Jupiter – Mars and Jupiter coming together say, “This is a time where there is potential for heroism.” We see that in the Sabian symbol, “Two awards for bravery in war.” And it’s two awards. So one for Mars, one for Jupiter.

So Mars, it’s like be brave. Be brave. That’s Mars. That’s what we get the award for. And with Jupiter it’s also being optimistic and being selfless. It’s nice to be recognized as we know for any kind of contribution that you make. But this is very much about just the things that we do for the greater good. And maybe it would reflect well on us if anyone knew about it. But really the whole point is to be generous and big-hearted with others.

It’s a tough time. I was talking to a student of mine who hopefully will be listening to this. Who is living in Northern Italy where there’s a quite a concentrated outbreak of the coronavirus. And he says it’s really touching in a way to see how difficult it is for Italians. They’re being instructed to keep a distance from each other, social distance and not hug and all of that. That’s the core of who they are.

Jen: Sure.

April: And he says he really hopes it doesn’t have the long-term consequences for the culture because people are being discouraged from acting on those very natural impulses.

Jen: Yes.

April: This is the Jupiter thing. It’s like, “Well, how can we stay connected to each other if we still have to sit a meter from each other in a restaurant or something?” I was like, “Well, be brave and be helpful to each other as is needed and don’t panic because the award for bravery says be brave, be smart… but don’t let yourself be completely rocked.”

Jen: Right. So Mars and Jupiter are starting a new two-year cycle together. And this is the beginning of that.

April: And that is the beginning of that, indeed. And nice for people who are ruled by Mars. So, Scorpio people and Aries people. And also, we would say the Aries Equinox is carrying a little bit of the flavor of this too because that’s ruled by Mars.

Jen: So why is it nice for people that are ruled by Mars?

April: Because Mars, their ruler, is coming together with Jupiter.

Jen: Oh, got it. The great benefic.

April: Yes.

Jen: Jupiter is expansion and confidence.

April: Yes, and nice stuff generally. It’s just… you will be rewarded.

Jen: If people want to hear more about Jupiter in Capricorn, they can listen to Episode 2, “Falstaff in a Business Suit.” If people want to hear more about Mars in Capricorn, they can listen to Episode 12, “Mercury Retrograde: Where Are My Pants?”

April: Our all-time favorite title!

Jen: All-time favorite title!

April: The sky giveth and the sky taketh away for our Mars friends.

Jen: What are you trying to say?

April: Well, Mars will conjunct Jupiter… but it will also conjunct Pluto.

Jen: Oh, conjunct Pluto!

April: Which is a little less uplifting, all things being equal. So that happens on March 22nd or 23rd depending on where you live. Because here on the west coast of the United States, it’s about 8:08 PM. And they last came together, Mars and Pluto, on April 26th 2018 at 21 degrees Capricorn. You can see Pluto has not moved that much further along. So Mars is the warrior planet. It’s the warrior instinct. It’s the part of us that wants to get out and make things happen and get what we want.

Jen: Okay.

April: And Pluto sort of represents those overwhelming forces that can make us feel a little bit powerless. Anger gets turned inward because anger is a Mars word – and it gets turned back inward onto itself sometimes in combination with Pluto. It’s like we feel beaten before we even start.

Now on the positive side, Venus and Jupiter and Neptune are in good aspect to Mars with Pluto. So we can overcome this negative, potentially dark Pluto side through pleasure and spiritual practice and giving ourselves positive brain food.

Jen: That’s nice. I like that.

April: Yes, of how can we rewire our tendency to be defeatist before we even start.

Jen: Yes.

April: I remember as a kid hating board games; my sister does too. Our family… we all have Mars very prominent in our charts… all in angular houses. And we’re extremely competitive. So, board game time at our house was not a good time.


April: And it really speaks to me of this Mars/Pluto combination. I don’t have them conjunct, but they’re in the same sign and they’re connected by the midheaven. And it’s that thing of… I really to this day hate the feeling of being in competition, because I feel like I’m beaten before I start.

Jen: Wow.

April: I feel that Pluto energy to it.

Jen: It drains you?

April: It does kind of drain me. And just feel undermined. I feel like no matter how hard I try, I can’t really break through and accomplish what I want to accomplish or do what I want to do or defend myself.

Jen: I see.

April: Mars/Pluto together, especially if you have it in your birth chart, and I have a family member who has it… it’s been very tough. I’m going to invoke Donna Cunningham’s name again.

Jen: Okay.

April: She wrote an excellent book called Healing Pluto Problems. It’s a classic. It’s been around for decades, and she talks about this tendency of Pluto, if it’s positioned in a difficult way in our chart… that we tend to “fail for spite” is the way she said it. And that always stuck with me. It’s where we will say, “Well I know I’m not going to win anyway, so I’m just going to really go down and I’m going to do it on my own terms.”

Jen: Yes.

April: So it’s a self-sabotage sometimes with Mars/Pluto. I think we just need to be aware as we go into the beginning of a new cycle of Mars with Pluto again, to say: Let’s align ourselves with something greater than ourselves. Where Pluto really gets us is if we’re self-serving; Pluto really hates that. It’s the enemy of the ego.

So if we try to direct our efforts and our energies in the direction of something bigger than ourselves, which is also represented by Pluto, Pluto can be very supportive and very rewarding. So this is also the beginning of another two and a half year cycle for that.

Jen: Sort of, what’s in the highest interest of all people everywhere?

April: Exactly so.

Jen: Okay.

April: Right. Mars operates at the level of “Mine, mine, mine, give it to me, give it to me, give it to me.” And Pluto says, “Okay, but what do we all need? It’s not just about you, Mars.” Mars says, “I beg to differ!”

Jen: So Mars will be in Aries the second half of the year. He’ll be an Aries a really long time and he’s making these conjunctions this week – coming together with Jupiter, coming together with Pluto. So stories from the next two weeks will be returning later in the year as Mars makes that opening square in Aries with all of these things that are happening right now.

April: That is an excellent insight. And the reason it will spend so much time in Aries of courses, is it will be retrograde for part of its cycle.

Jen: Right.

April: So as we’ve seen with this interminable Mercury in Pisces, that’s because it had an extended retrograde in the middle of it. And it happened just so in Pisces for us to really get an extended version of that.

Mars in Aries is going to be doing the same thing. And Mars is very strong in Aries. So that’s the time when that desire to really do something for ourselves really rears its head and says, “I’m tired of doing for everybody else. I want to do for me.” So that square is always where you have to come up with some way of each side helping the other grow.

Jen: That’s nice.

April: Yes.

Jen: Yes. So notice what themes are coming up for you over the next couple of weeks. What lessons can you integrate later in the year?

April: Excellent advice! What a good insight! I’m glad you’re my pod pal.

Jen: Oh, I’m glad you’re my pod pal!

April: Well, what do you think? We have nothing else on the show sheet. Have we done it?

Jen: We’ve done it. Episode 17!

April: Yes. In the can!

April: Well we thank you as always for listening to The Big Sky Astrology Podcast. If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to subscribe. If you’re in iTunes or Stitcher, I know they offer that, so that you don’t miss a single episode. Or you can read show notes and full transcripts and leave your comments about each episode, which we encourage you to do…

Jen: Yes, please.

April: …yes, at our website,

Jen: And if you’re enjoying the show, please consider pitching in a few bucks to help keep the show going. You can go to and contribute as little as a dollar. That would really help us out. If you can kick in more, that would also be really awesome. So thank you.

April: Thank you. And thank you to the continued support of some really generous – we will call them patrons – who have helped us out and are really helping us bring the podcast to you. We really appreciate it. Also tell a friend; that doesn’t cost you anything, and if you’re enjoying it and you know somebody in your life that you think would enjoy it as well, pass it on to them.

Jen: Yes. Star it if you can on whatever platform you’re listening.

April: Yes.

Jen: Give it a thumbs up.

April: Two thumbs way up, Jen. Two thumbs.

All right, well join us again, bright and early next Monday. And until then, keep your feet on the ground…

Jen: …and your eyes on the stars!

Thank you for listening. To learn more about April Elliott Kent, please check out her website,, where you can sign up for her newsletter, read her thought-provoking weekly essays, purchase her books, sign up for a personal astrology reading, and more.

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© 2020 April Elliott Kent & Jennifer Braun


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